According to what's written in the following URLs:, (under the 'Chipsets I won't be working on' section) the TL-WN722N TP-LINK wireless dongle isn't supported on freeBSD since its chipset is based on the AR9271 chipset which isn't supported by FreeBSD. Now, my question is, since the above mentioned device is supported by Linux via a special atheros firmware module, and since FreeBSD provides a Linux virtualization, will this device work on a FreeBSD system by its Linux virtualization capability? Regards, Atar.

_______________________________________________ mailing list To unsubscribe, send any mail to ' Arthur Chance 26.08.14 03:25. On 08:32, atar wrote: >Hi there! >>According to what's written in the following URLs: >, >>(under the 'Chipsets I won't be working on' section) the >TL-WN722N TP-LINK wireless dongle isn't supported on freeBSD >since its chipset is based on the AR9271 chipset which isn't >supported by FreeBSD. >>Now, my question is, since the above mentioned device is supported >by Linux via a special atheros firmware module, and since FreeBSD >provides a Linux virtualization, will this device work on a FreeBSD >system by its Linux virtualization capability?

I'm not familiar with the Atheros firmware, but the likely answer is no. Linux virtualization (probably better described as emulation) is at the user space level, i.e.

Aug 26, 2014. Device drivers work in kernel space, and the FreeBSD kernel has very different internals from Linux. >>Re: TL-WN722N support on FreeBSD. Miguel Clara, 8/26/14 5:40 AM. Well the page states 'The AR7010 and AR9271 NICs are not yet supported - the USB glue needs writing for ath(4).' Lyberty.com's weekly/monthly splash page. (Yes, a splash page is old fashioned, but it's been a tradition here since 1999.).

It mimics the interface of Linux syscalls. Device drivers work in kernel space, and the FreeBSD kernel has very different internals from Linux. Polytropon 26.08.14 03:32. On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:32:24 +0300, atar wrote: >Now, my question is, since the above mentioned device is supported >by Linux via a special atheros firmware module, and since FreeBSD >provides a Linux virtualization, will this device work on a FreeBSD >system by its Linux virtualization capability? Probably this won't work. The Linux support in FreeBSD is in the form of an ABI, an alternative binary interface.

This allows Linux _programs_ to make Linux system calls which are then 'translated' into BSD system calls. This happens in user space, the 'layer' in which programs are running. Device drivers, on the other hand, do not operate in this 'layer', they are very tightly connected to the system kernel, using its interfaces. As FreeBSD's kernel space is very different from Linux's kernel space, the driver probably cannot be used 1:1. A rewrite would be required (or at last some major adjustments).

-- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa. Atar 26.08.14 04:31. Ok, I've understood the point. So probably there's no way to use this popular TP-LINK dongle with FreeBSD.

>On 08:32, atar wrote: >>Hi there! >>>>According to what's written in the following URLs: >>, >>>>(under the 'Chipsets I won't be working on' section) the >>TL-WN722N TP-LINK wireless dongle isn't supported on freeBSD >>since its chipset is based on the AR9271 chipset which isn't >>supported by FreeBSD. >>>>Now, my question is, since the above mentioned device is supported >>by Linux via a special atheros firmware module, and since FreeBSD >>provides a Linux virtualization, will this device work on a FreeBSD >>system by its Linux virtualization capability? >>I'm not familiar with the Atheros firmware, but the likely answer is no. Linux virtualization (probably better described as emulation) is at the user space level, i.e. It mimics the interface of Linux syscalls. Device drivers work in kernel space, and the FreeBSD kernel has very different internals from Linux.

>>Miguel Clara 26.08.14 05:40. Maybe, but it has about above half of a year since I've saw this limitation in FreeBSD and this still wasn't fixed so I haven't too much hopes it will be fixed in the near future.

>Well the page states 'The AR7010 and AR9271 NICs are not yet supported - the USB glue needs writing for ath(4).' >>So it might happen:) >>Ofc only the maintainer can tell, and he was already done some many and great work on this. >>>Melhores Cumprimentos // Best Regards >----------------------------------------------- >Miguel Clara >IT - Sys Admin & Developer >E-mail: >sergio de Almeida Lenzi 26.08.14 09:27. On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:39:56 +0300, atar wrote: >So you give me additional reason to stay with Linux and >not to migrate to FreeBSD since even a basic wireless >adapter which came with your Sony isn't supported by >FreeBSD.

To be honest, I don't know if your Sony wireless >adapter is supported by Linux, but in general, I think >linux is more flexible and supports more devices than >FreeBSD (and more than all the rest of *BSD variations). Of course this is a problem in FreeBSD, and it's a known problem.

There is a workaround (which isn't really helpful afterwards, but beforehand): First check if the hardware is supported, then buy it. Especially wireless devices are subject to the tricky game of 'driver lottery'. You will have more luck with Linux in this regards, as it covers hardware with working drivers more than any other operating system does, and usually, it keeps the support for devices that 'Windows' has long dropped (if you happen to insist on using specific hardware, such as video grabber cards, DVB sticks, sound cards or other 'non-mainstream' equipment). Up to this point, I was always lucky with the hardware I purchased: FreeBSD's support for WLAN components was excellent. I've been using IBM / Lenovo, Dell, Siemens- Fijutsu and Sony laptop hardware, and FreeBSD did not have any trouble getting the buildin hardware to work. Still there are models which cause problems: Some of them use chipsets not supported by current drivers, others just use f*cked up ACPI implementations, and others delegate hardware functionality to proprietary drivers which make the actual devices 'appear' and 'work', and as you will guess, those are only available for specific versions of 'Windows'. It depends on you if you want to: a) purchase other hardware to replace what is not supported, b) relapse to using Linux which supports your hardware, or c) accept that it's not working and make a better choice next time you buy something.:-) Many manufacturers are already regognizing that 'Windows' usage is decreasing, and Linux support becomes more and more important to sell a device.

They provide drivers or build their devices so they support existing standards. But of course hardware is evolving, and the OS needs to provide the interfaces for the new. FreeBSD isn't exactly blazing fast in this regards, but to me, never buying 'the newest' for having 'the newest' for few weeks (instead buying 'good' in order to have 'good' for several years), it doesn't really matter, so my opinion doesn't matter much. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa. Lars Engels 27.08.14 04:04.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:39:56AM +0300, atar wrote: >So you give me additional reason to stay with Linux and not to migrate >to FreeBSD since even a basic wireless adapter which came with your >Sony isn't supported by FreeBSD. To be honest, I don't know if your >Sony wireless adapter is supported by Linux, but in general, I think >linux is more flexible and supports more devices than FreeBSD (and >more than all the rest of *BSD variations). Just get one of these (if_run): Airlink101 AWLL6090 ASUS USB-N11 ASUS USB-N13 ver. Hi Polytropon - Thanks for your response. As usual, your responses are well-written, very thorough, articulate, and unemotional (in a good sense). Essentials Of Illinois School Finance 5th Edition. Too often on email lists I see one-liner complaints/problems/rants, where opinions are not backed up with reasons; issues not researched well; etc, etc; followed by another one-line opinion, ad nauseam.

I too am slowly moving to FreeBSD, and just last week was trying to get my Lenovo laptop working. Had to put that project aside since day job intervened. You mentioned you had success with wireless on Lenovo; I might have to ask for some help. Your responses keep the “spirit of FreeBSD” (at least how I see it, in my short exposure to it), alive and well. Also, responses like yours add the to the set of “useful information” entries on the email archives; it helps keep the signal-to-noise ratio higher (seems to be a losing battle, some days). PS Your signature line always reminds me that perhaps it’s time to re-read the Odyssey “os mala polla”. Don Harrisburg, PA On Aug 27, 2014, at 5:22, Polytropon wrote: >On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:39:56 +0300, atar wrote: >>So you give me additional reason to stay with Linux and >>not to migrate to FreeBSD since even a basic wireless >>adapter which came with your Sony isn't supported by >>FreeBSD.

To be honest, I don't know if your Sony wireless >>adapter is supported by Linux, but in general, I think >>linux is more flexible and supports more devices than >>FreeBSD (and more than all the rest of *BSD variations). >Jerry 27.08.14 08:53. On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:22:09 +0200, Polytropon stated: There is a serious flaw in your thinking Poly. It is the same flaw, or shall we say fallacy with dealing with alcoholics or drug addicts. By accepting the situation, and in fact encouraging it by purchasing lessor quality or older/obsoleted hardware, you are “enabling” FreeBSD to continue to distribute an operating system that is subpar. You have in fact become an enabler. If FreeBSD is ever going to get its act together and become as fully functional OS, people like you have to demand it stop this practice of procrastinating in the development of up-to-date drivers for the latest technology.

Although you will, blame the manufacturers. I have spoken to Brother USA and asked why they do not make a more complete set of drivers available for their product. I was told that due to the cornucopia of flavors of *.nix, etcetera, there is no way that they could reasonably or financially support them. They choose to support the ones who offer them the most support and whose market they can reasonable be assured of reaching. Microsoft, as I was told, has a whole department that actively deals with hardware developers and works with them to develop drivers/peripherals that work on their OS. I am not aware of such an entity with FreeBSD.

I remember just a few years ago, when everyone had drivers for “n” protocol wireless cards, except FreeBSD. I had a machine that had just such a card installed. I now had a choice, remove the card and use a cheap quality or ‘G” protocol card, or use another OS. You are a smart person Poly, guess which route I choose. ********************************************************************* Enabler: one that enables another to achieve an end; especially, one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior -- Jerry Roland Smith 27.08.14 11:00.

>>On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:39:56 +0300, atar wrote: >>>So you give me additional reason to stay with Linux and >>>not to migrate to FreeBSD since even a basic wireless >>>adapter which came with your Sony isn't supported by >>>FreeBSD. To be honest, I don't know if your Sony wireless >>>adapter is supported by Linux, but in general, I think >>>linux is more flexible and supports more devices than >>>FreeBSD (and more than all the rest of *BSD variations). >>>>Of course this is a problem in FreeBSD, and it's a known >>problem. There is a workaround (which isn't really helpful >>afterwards, but beforehand): First check if the hardware >>is supported, then buy it. Especially wireless devices >>are subject to the tricky game of 'driver lottery'. You >>will have more luck with Linux in this regards, as it >>covers hardware with working drivers more than any other >>operating system does, and usually, it keeps the support >>for devices that 'Windows' has long dropped (if you happen >>to insist on using specific hardware, such as video grabber >>cards, DVB sticks, sound cards or other 'non-mainstream' >>equipment). >>>>Up to this point, I was always lucky with the hardware I >>purchased: FreeBSD's support for WLAN components was >>excellent.

For off-the-shelf no-name WLAN cards it is in my experience often difficult to tell which chipset is used inside. There have even been instances where manufacturers switch the chipset to something completely different without changing the part number! In cases like this I tend to download and unpack the windoze driver from the manufacturer's website. If you look through the configuration files for the driver install (.inf, IIRC) you can generally tell which chipset is used. Or you can buy a slightly more expensive brand name card for which you *know* drivers exist and save yourself a lot of time. >>I've been using IBM / Lenovo, Dell, Siemens- >>Fijutsu and Sony laptop hardware, and FreeBSD did not >>have any trouble getting the buildin hardware to work. >>Still there are models which cause problems: Some of >>them use chipsets not supported by current drivers, others >>just use f*cked up ACPI implementations, and others >>delegate hardware functionality to proprietary drivers >>which make the actual devices 'appear' and 'work', and >>as you will guess, those are only available for specific >>versions of 'Windows'.

Like winprinters. >>It depends on you if you want to: >>>>a) purchase other hardware to replace what is >>not supported, >>>>b) relapse to using Linux which supports your >>hardware, or >>>>c) accept that it's not working and make a better >>choice next time you buy something.:-) If I'm buying a PC or laptop I tend to go to a shop with a FreeBSD DVD or memstick and ask if I can try booting the machine in question from it. Then the dmesg output tells me what works and what doesn't. Smaller shops can generally build PC's and sometimes laptops to order with components that you specify.

That is generally what I do. >>FreeBSD isn't exactly blazing fast in this regards, but to me, never >>buying 'the newest' for having 'the newest' for few weeks (instead buying >>'good' in order to have 'good' for several years), it doesn't really >>matter, so my opinion doesn't matter much.

Definitely agree. Never buy the latest generation hardware! You pay top dollar (especially for CPUs) and the difference to the previous generation that is probably better supported by FreeBSD is generally not really significant. These days the biggest speedup for a computer is probably to use an SSD instead of an HDD.

But since GELI doesn't support TRIM yet, and I consider encryption a must have for my own data in case of theft, I'll wait for a while. Of course using a relatively small unencrypted SDD for the OS with an encrypted HDD for data would be a solution for that.

Roland -- R.F.Smith [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 5753 3324 1661 B0FE 8D93 FCED 40F6 D5DC A38A 33E0 (keyID: A38A33E0) Adrian Chadd 27.08.14 12:11. On 27 August 2014 08:53, Jerry wrote: [snip rant] >I remember just a few years ago, when everyone had drivers for “n” protocol >wireless cards, except FreeBSD. I had a machine that had just such a card >installed. I now had a choice, remove the card and use a cheap quality or ‘G” >protocol card, or use another OS. You are a smart person Poly, guess which >route I choose. Know what I did? I made the 11n bits work.

-a _______________________________________________ mailing list To unsubscribe, send any mail to ' Adrian Chadd 27.08.14 12:16. Hi, The main issue is this: I really don't like the USB driver stuff in the kernel. When I last checked, there was no clean example of a wifi or ethernet driver which handles all of the odd corner cases of things correctly. So you'd end up with things like taskqueues still running whilst the NIC had been pulled out, all sleeping on a wakeup that'll never come, or the ioctl path not really being locked the right way with the rest of the USB driver. I started tinkering with a driver for the AR9170, but I still couldn't get the command handling side of things right.

It's tricky because USB is effectively a network protocol, but all the drivers are written assuming register accesses are synchronous. So you end up having to craft some kind of command structure that handles sleeping for commands that it expects a response on from another USB endpoint (eg register reads), but not sleeping for commands that are asynchronous.

I gave up because it became 'non-fun.' Almost all of the work is done in the atheros driver side of things. Heck, the AR9271 bits for the HAL are likely just an evenings worth of work for me. I just don't want to deal with the USB side of it. I'm not being paid to do any of the wireless stuff in FreeBSD, so it has to clear the 'is it fun' threshold. Polytropon 27.08.14 20:33. On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 20:00:04 +0200, Roland Smith wrote: >For off-the-shelf no-name WLAN cards it is in my experience often difficult to >tell which chipset is used inside.

There have even been instances where >manufacturers switch the chipset to something completely different without >changing the part number! Or they use a naming scheme that makes it easy to be confused with 'what you think it is'. Many years ago, I wanted to buy a Realtek RTL8029 network card. My local shop had them, with the name 'Net8029'. So I bought one, but said I would return it if it wasn't supported by the Realtek driver.

And as you may have guessed, 'boot -v' later, it was a different chip, and the driver didn't pick it up. I made an (impressive looking) dotmatrix hardcopy of the boot process, marked the problem with crayon, and returned the card.:-) >>>I've been using IBM / Lenovo, Dell, Siemens- >>>Fijutsu and Sony laptop hardware, and FreeBSD did not >>>have any trouble getting the buildin hardware to work. >>>Still there are models which cause problems: Some of >>>them use chipsets not supported by current drivers, others >>>just use f*cked up ACPI implementations, and others >>>delegate hardware functionality to proprietary drivers >>>which make the actual devices 'appear' and 'work', and >>>as you will guess, those are only available for specific >>>versions of 'Windows'.

>>Like winprinters. Yes, those are terrible and years behind technological evolution. The same applies to 'WinModems', a disease that development has fortunately dealt with. I remember that this kind of stupidity started (in the PC world) on late DOS: Soundcards that no 'driver' (sound subroutines in the programs) would recognize until a DOS program, loaded via CONFIG.SYS, would have sent a firmware to it, initialized and enabled the card. Then everything worked as expected, a 'Sound- blaster or 100% compatible' was suddenly present. Of course I never owned such a card myself.:-) >>>It depends on you if you want to: >>>>>>a) purchase other hardware to replace what is >>>not supported, >>>>>>b) relapse to using Linux which supports your >>>hardware, or >>>>>>c) accept that it's not working and make a better >>>choice next time you buy something.:-) >>If I'm buying a PC or laptop I tend to go to a shop with a FreeBSD DVD or >memstick and ask if I can try booting the machine in question from it. Movie Outline 3 1 Keygen For Mac.

Then >the dmesg output tells me what works and what doesn't. That's what I also would suggest, and the promise of a successful sale enables the clerks to quickly allow this test. A FreeBSD live system such as FreeSBIE has been very useful in the past, sadly they didn't update it past v5. >Smaller shops can generally build PC's and sometimes laptops to order with >components that you specify. That is generally what I do. Me too, except that I still assemble the stuff myself.

Yes, I haven't got tired of this shit yet.;-) >>>FreeBSD isn't exactly blazing fast in this regards, but to me, never >>>buying 'the newest' for having 'the newest' for few weeks (instead buying >>>'good' in order to have 'good' for several years), it doesn't really >>>matter, so my opinion doesn't matter much. >>Definitely agree. Never buy the latest generation hardware! You pay top dollar >(especially for CPUs) and the difference to the previous generation that is >probably better supported by FreeBSD is generally not really significant.

This is something I recently recognized: People spend lots of money for 'top notch CPUs' and systems, but the speed on which the whole thing is working isn't any impressive. Especially when loaded with 'Windows', it's sometimes less than 'what they had before', and they start complaining.

BUt hey, 'it was expensive, so it must be good!' As with used office laser printers, buying 'older' hardware for much less money and relying on FreeBSD and its applications to efficiently use those resources looks more appealing.

Less money, more usable power. >These days the biggest speedup for a computer is probably to use an SSD instead >of an HDD.

But since GELI doesn't support TRIM yet, and I consider encryption a >must have for my own data in case of theft, I'll wait for a while. Of course >using a relatively small unencrypted SDD for the OS with an encrypted HDD for >data would be a solution for that. SSDs are becoming cheaper, and TRIM support will surely appear in GELI, so if you can wait, wait a bit. And: Yes, SSDs for mass storage are an improvement that you can actually see (see 'newest hardware' mentioned above).

-- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa. Sergio de Almeida Lenzi 28.08.14 07:48.